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	<title>Comments on: Rowan Williams on seeing the church&#8217;s future in the church&#8217;s past</title>
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	<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/rowan-williams-on-seeing-the-churchs-future-in-the-churchs-past/</link>
	<description>Serving the joyful cultivation of the theological craft for the life of the church: inquiring honestly, deliberating wisely, acting faithfully</description>
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		<title>By: Andrew Tatum</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/rowan-williams-on-seeing-the-churchs-future-in-the-churchs-past/#comment-13548</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Tatum]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:40:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=2531#comment-13548</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is an old post so I&#039;m late to the game here.  But I would be curious to know which of today&#039;s so-called &quot;Neo-Calvinists&quot; you would point to as examples of what you&#039;re talking about here?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an old post so I&#8217;m late to the game here.  But I would be curious to know which of today&#8217;s so-called &#8220;Neo-Calvinists&#8221; you would point to as examples of what you&#8217;re talking about here?</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Eilers</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/rowan-williams-on-seeing-the-churchs-future-in-the-churchs-past/#comment-12862</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kent Eilers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 20:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=2531#comment-12862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I will be quite interested to read your work. The German theologian Wolfhart Pannenberg, the subject of my doctoral work, saw theology as a science as well. For him, theology&#039;s status as a science did not negate the &quot;provisionality&quot; of its truth-claims but, in a way, secured it: its claims always open to testing and evaluation for coherence in the public market place of ideas. 

Regarding online publishers - I won&#039;t be much help to you there. I do know that Lulu&#039;s rates are reasonable for trade paperback (lulu.com).

Cheers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will be quite interested to read your work. The German theologian Wolfhart Pannenberg, the subject of my doctoral work, saw theology as a science as well. For him, theology&#8217;s status as a science did not negate the &#8220;provisionality&#8221; of its truth-claims but, in a way, secured it: its claims always open to testing and evaluation for coherence in the public market place of ideas. </p>
<p>Regarding online publishers &#8211; I won&#8217;t be much help to you there. I do know that Lulu&#8217;s rates are reasonable for trade paperback (lulu.com).</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: Griffin</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/rowan-williams-on-seeing-the-churchs-future-in-the-churchs-past/#comment-12854</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Griffin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=2531#comment-12854</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kent:

Haven&#039;t read much on the subject of the non-dogmatic presentation of religion.  I&#039;ve got a doctorate myself, but not in theology:  Culture Studies.

But I like your style; as a sometimes academic, I sort of like the style in some pastors and theologians, that presents things in a more tentative, non-dogmatic way; leaving things a little more open.

In fact, I believe that presenting ideas about God as if they are entirely well known and fixed, is not quite honest, at any level; from theology professional journals, to even especially, ordinary sermons and talk-show religion.  

And I&#039;m very interested therefore, in presentation styles - and any new and old formulas, humble demurrers - that could and in my opinion should be expressed, before and after perhaps any pronouncement of anything at all, as the &quot;word of God.&quot;

Your occasional speculations on theology and/or its God, as an activity in part  of the &quot;flesh&quot; therefore interests me. 

For my own part, I&#039;m finishing up a book on seeing theology, Christianity, as a science; with the &quot;correctibility&quot; of science implied.

Regarding my book by the way:  any leads about a fast, free, on-line publisher?  For my fairly polished draft?  I&#039;d like to get my book on line; get some feedback; then go on to a print publisher.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kent:</p>
<p>Haven&#8217;t read much on the subject of the non-dogmatic presentation of religion.  I&#8217;ve got a doctorate myself, but not in theology:  Culture Studies.</p>
<p>But I like your style; as a sometimes academic, I sort of like the style in some pastors and theologians, that presents things in a more tentative, non-dogmatic way; leaving things a little more open.</p>
<p>In fact, I believe that presenting ideas about God as if they are entirely well known and fixed, is not quite honest, at any level; from theology professional journals, to even especially, ordinary sermons and talk-show religion.  </p>
<p>And I&#8217;m very interested therefore, in presentation styles &#8211; and any new and old formulas, humble demurrers &#8211; that could and in my opinion should be expressed, before and after perhaps any pronouncement of anything at all, as the &#8220;word of God.&#8221;</p>
<p>Your occasional speculations on theology and/or its God, as an activity in part  of the &#8220;flesh&#8221; therefore interests me. </p>
<p>For my own part, I&#8217;m finishing up a book on seeing theology, Christianity, as a science; with the &#8220;correctibility&#8221; of science implied.</p>
<p>Regarding my book by the way:  any leads about a fast, free, on-line publisher?  For my fairly polished draft?  I&#8217;d like to get my book on line; get some feedback; then go on to a print publisher.</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2009-08-23 &#124; The 'K' is not silent</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/rowan-williams-on-seeing-the-churchs-future-in-the-churchs-past/#comment-12823</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[links for 2009-08-23 &#124; The 'K' is not silent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=2531#comment-12823</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Rowan Williams on seeing the church’s future in the church’s past « Theology Forum (tags: article theology history) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Rowan Williams on seeing the church’s future in the church’s past « Theology Forum (tags: article theology history) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Eilers</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/rowan-williams-on-seeing-the-churchs-future-in-the-churchs-past/#comment-12644</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kent Eilers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=2531#comment-12644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good thoughts Griffin, and they make me think of a recent article by Nicholas Healy (St. John&#039;s University). He  makes what I think is a helpful distinction between four different practices of theology: (1) official (2) ordinary (3) churchly (4) academic.

On his taxonomy, you seem to be referring to both &quot;ordinary&quot; and &quot;official&quot; kinds of theology. Official theology doesn&#039;t need originate from an institutional church authority (either Roman or otherwise) but comes to lay people each week from their pulpit. Although congregational churches would not think of this theology as especially &quot;official&quot; it has (from my experience) an incredibly powerful impact on shaping the theology of its hearers. To your comment, yes, these &quot;words from God&quot; might not have passed much scrutiny - especially if the preacher had a busy week filled with funerals, visitations, counseling, and elder meetings. It is my opinion that congregations should be made aware of their own responsibility in discerning truth from error in their church&#039;s (official) theology. 

To your other point, regarding ordinary people coming up with ad hoc theology, this is certainly the best indication of theology&#039;s need for its proper home in the community of believers - a community in which the necessary pulling and pushing takes place this side of the eschaton when final certainty arrives. 

There is a book I have been meaning to read called, &quot;God Talk: Cautions for Those who Hear God&#039;s Voice&quot; (IVP, 2006). Any chance you have read it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good thoughts Griffin, and they make me think of a recent article by Nicholas Healy (St. John&#8217;s University). He  makes what I think is a helpful distinction between four different practices of theology: (1) official (2) ordinary (3) churchly (4) academic.</p>
<p>On his taxonomy, you seem to be referring to both &#8220;ordinary&#8221; and &#8220;official&#8221; kinds of theology. Official theology doesn&#8217;t need originate from an institutional church authority (either Roman or otherwise) but comes to lay people each week from their pulpit. Although congregational churches would not think of this theology as especially &#8220;official&#8221; it has (from my experience) an incredibly powerful impact on shaping the theology of its hearers. To your comment, yes, these &#8220;words from God&#8221; might not have passed much scrutiny &#8211; especially if the preacher had a busy week filled with funerals, visitations, counseling, and elder meetings. It is my opinion that congregations should be made aware of their own responsibility in discerning truth from error in their church&#8217;s (official) theology. </p>
<p>To your other point, regarding ordinary people coming up with ad hoc theology, this is certainly the best indication of theology&#8217;s need for its proper home in the community of believers &#8211; a community in which the necessary pulling and pushing takes place this side of the eschaton when final certainty arrives. </p>
<p>There is a book I have been meaning to read called, &#8220;God Talk: Cautions for Those who Hear God&#8217;s Voice&#8221; (IVP, 2006). Any chance you have read it?</p>
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		<title>By: Griffin</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/rowan-williams-on-seeing-the-churchs-future-in-the-churchs-past/#comment-12642</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Griffin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Aug 2009 16:06:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=2531#comment-12642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Once you allow the church very, very great authority, as the living Body of Christ, to approriate - or even expropriate - from tradition, to define its own new dogmas ... then you are giving a group of ordinary people the explicit power to define God.  Could accepting this openly, go to peoples&#039; heads?  And mislead the many people in the church, who don&#039;t know all this might be very ad hoc?

And if we allow ad hoc creations to be issued as the voice of GOd, shouldn&#039;t we at least now and then, regularly warn people that the latest &quot;words from God&quot; might not have passed very, very thorough scrutiny?  And might not have a very thorough historical foundation?  And might well be the voice of the ministers, more than of any stable god, in fact?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once you allow the church very, very great authority, as the living Body of Christ, to approriate &#8211; or even expropriate &#8211; from tradition, to define its own new dogmas &#8230; then you are giving a group of ordinary people the explicit power to define God.  Could accepting this openly, go to peoples&#8217; heads?  And mislead the many people in the church, who don&#8217;t know all this might be very ad hoc?</p>
<p>And if we allow ad hoc creations to be issued as the voice of GOd, shouldn&#8217;t we at least now and then, regularly warn people that the latest &#8220;words from God&#8221; might not have passed very, very thorough scrutiny?  And might not have a very thorough historical foundation?  And might well be the voice of the ministers, more than of any stable god, in fact?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Lugioyo</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/rowan-williams-on-seeing-the-churchs-future-in-the-churchs-past/#comment-12469</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Lugioyo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=2531#comment-12469</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just finished reading Tait&#039;s thesis on Bucer. It is exceptional! Send him my compliments. Looking forward to hearing from you.

Brian]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just finished reading Tait&#8217;s thesis on Bucer. It is exceptional! Send him my compliments. Looking forward to hearing from you.</p>
<p>Brian</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Eilers</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/rowan-williams-on-seeing-the-churchs-future-in-the-churchs-past/#comment-12395</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kent Eilers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=2531#comment-12395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your comment about the &quot;academy&quot; driving corner-church religion reminded me of something Nicholas Healy said in a recent essay:  

&quot;The university takes neither professional systematic theology nor the church particularly seriously. It provides academic systematic theologians with a place to work at a healthy distance from the institutional church, checks our pride, and makes possible ongoing and extensive enagement with all forms of inquiry. Whilst no systematic theology really belongs to the modern university, it may well be best, for the time being at least, for professional systematic theology to remain there, provided it also keeps within the sphere of the whole church, and so in close relation to both ordinary and official theology. If it stays where it is, it may be graced with opportunities to continue its work as a &lt;i&gt;constructively unsettling element&lt;/i&gt; in both places&quot; (&lt;i&gt;International Journal of Systematic Theology&lt;/i&gt;, 11/1 [Jan 2009]: 39]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your comment about the &#8220;academy&#8221; driving corner-church religion reminded me of something Nicholas Healy said in a recent essay:  </p>
<p>&#8220;The university takes neither professional systematic theology nor the church particularly seriously. It provides academic systematic theologians with a place to work at a healthy distance from the institutional church, checks our pride, and makes possible ongoing and extensive enagement with all forms of inquiry. Whilst no systematic theology really belongs to the modern university, it may well be best, for the time being at least, for professional systematic theology to remain there, provided it also keeps within the sphere of the whole church, and so in close relation to both ordinary and official theology. If it stays where it is, it may be graced with opportunities to continue its work as a <i>constructively unsettling element</i> in both places&#8221; (<i>International Journal of Systematic Theology</i>, 11/1 [Jan 2009]: 39]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/rowan-williams-on-seeing-the-churchs-future-in-the-churchs-past/#comment-12392</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Joe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 16:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=2531#comment-12392</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Post-liberal&quot; evangelicalism, like Dr. Child&#039;s, seems to deliberately try to revive/work within, a 1950&#039;s sense of the Bible; as if that was definitive.

They say that the best rock and roll, is whatever they were playing when you were 16 years old; when the hormones kick in.  And maybe the &quot;best&quot; and &quot;conservative&quot; and &quot;true&quot; theology for those of a conservative bent, is whatever they heard in church when they were that age, too.

Personally I would rather see academic theology, with its greater sense of freedom, with also its inevitable rationalism, (by way of &quot;academic&quot;), actually drive more corner-church religion.

I&#039;d like to see lots of &quot;thinking-man&#039;s&quot; churches.  

No doubt, seminaries have found Biblical arguments to justify academic rational theology, vs. blind faith; I&#039;d like to see them become standard sermons.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Post-liberal&#8221; evangelicalism, like Dr. Child&#8217;s, seems to deliberately try to revive/work within, a 1950&#8242;s sense of the Bible; as if that was definitive.</p>
<p>They say that the best rock and roll, is whatever they were playing when you were 16 years old; when the hormones kick in.  And maybe the &#8220;best&#8221; and &#8220;conservative&#8221; and &#8220;true&#8221; theology for those of a conservative bent, is whatever they heard in church when they were that age, too.</p>
<p>Personally I would rather see academic theology, with its greater sense of freedom, with also its inevitable rationalism, (by way of &#8220;academic&#8221;), actually drive more corner-church religion.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to see lots of &#8220;thinking-man&#8217;s&#8221; churches.  </p>
<p>No doubt, seminaries have found Biblical arguments to justify academic rational theology, vs. blind faith; I&#8217;d like to see them become standard sermons.</p>
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		<title>By: Kent Eilers</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2009/08/05/rowan-williams-on-seeing-the-churchs-future-in-the-churchs-past/#comment-12362</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kent Eilers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=2531#comment-12362</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brian, great to hear from you! Your name just came up a couple days ago as I was talking with Edwin Woodruff Tait (a colleague here at Huntington). He was familiar with your work on Romans and very complementary. I will get in touch with you via email.

Cheers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian, great to hear from you! Your name just came up a couple days ago as I was talking with Edwin Woodruff Tait (a colleague here at Huntington). He was familiar with your work on Romans and very complementary. I will get in touch with you via email.</p>
<p>Cheers.</p>
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