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	<title>Comments on: Rubbishing the King James Version: Eugene Peterson and Translation</title>
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	<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/rubbishing-the-king-james-version-eugene-peterson-and-translation/</link>
	<description>Serving the joyful cultivation of the theological craft for the life of the church: inquiring honestly, deliberating wisely, acting faithfully</description>
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		<title>By: Drama</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/rubbishing-the-king-james-version-eugene-peterson-and-translation/#comment-34132</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Drama]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Feb 2013 00:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4231#comment-34132</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Bill B.
That phrase, &quot;Appointed to be read in Churches,” was not put on the Authorized Version (1611) by King James&#039; authorization; that was of the translators own act.

If you have not read the preface to the Authorized Version of 1611, then that might be something you would want to do. They state in the preface, the reason that Bible translation was made, and they say clearly, paraphrasing, it was for the common man to have access to God&#039;s word in man&#039;s common language.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bill B.<br />
That phrase, &#8220;Appointed to be read in Churches,” was not put on the Authorized Version (1611) by King James&#8217; authorization; that was of the translators own act.</p>
<p>If you have not read the preface to the Authorized Version of 1611, then that might be something you would want to do. They state in the preface, the reason that Bible translation was made, and they say clearly, paraphrasing, it was for the common man to have access to God&#8217;s word in man&#8217;s common language.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle Strobel</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/rubbishing-the-king-james-version-eugene-peterson-and-translation/#comment-24533</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kyle Strobel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 17:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4231#comment-24533</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry I have been so long in responding to this. Actually, your point goes exactly against Peterson&#039;s point. Peterson is an expert in both Greek and Hebrew, and used the Greek manuscripts. His point is that to be truly faithful in translation, you have to paraphrase. In other words, translations are actually paraphrases and paraphrases are true translations. That is what is so interesting about his point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry I have been so long in responding to this. Actually, your point goes exactly against Peterson&#8217;s point. Peterson is an expert in both Greek and Hebrew, and used the Greek manuscripts. His point is that to be truly faithful in translation, you have to paraphrase. In other words, translations are actually paraphrases and paraphrases are true translations. That is what is so interesting about his point.</p>
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		<title>By: Brettongarcia</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/rubbishing-the-king-james-version-eugene-peterson-and-translation/#comment-24497</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brettongarcia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 08:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4231#comment-24497</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ellsworth:

Well noted. If  Peterson&#039;s &quot;Message&quot; is not even a translation, but just a paraphrase? Then of course, so much the worse.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ellsworth:</p>
<p>Well noted. If  Peterson&#8217;s &#8220;Message&#8221; is not even a translation, but just a paraphrase? Then of course, so much the worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Ellsworth Brand</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/rubbishing-the-king-james-version-eugene-peterson-and-translation/#comment-24487</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ellsworth Brand]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Feb 2011 04:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4231#comment-24487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Peterson&#039;s &quot;The Message&quot; is not a translation.  It&#039;s a paraphrase adapted to contemporary sensibilities.  Compare his rendering of Romans 3:21-26 with the Greek, for example.  Of course the KJV is inadequate as a translation--it&#039;s 500 years old!  But it&#039;s still much more faithful to the Greek text than is &quot;The Message.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peterson&#8217;s &#8220;The Message&#8221; is not a translation.  It&#8217;s a paraphrase adapted to contemporary sensibilities.  Compare his rendering of Romans 3:21-26 with the Greek, for example.  Of course the KJV is inadequate as a translation&#8211;it&#8217;s 500 years old!  But it&#8217;s still much more faithful to the Greek text than is &#8220;The Message.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Brettongarcia</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/rubbishing-the-king-james-version-eugene-peterson-and-translation/#comment-24470</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brettongarcia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Feb 2011 14:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4231#comment-24470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ironically, many scholars feel that the Bible and its theology, was actually improved and refined by the best of later translations.  In that case, going back to the original would not be good. 

A 1611 update by the best scholars available, in the era of Shakespeare, of a c. 200 AD document, might be useful after all.  Though we might well look into just exactly what &quot;improvements&quot; were made, and the complex developed theology that made them.  In particular, the pointed Shakespearian semantic ambiguity of later versions, seems to have helped convey a complex message that most ordinary churches have not really appreciated, even to this very day.

An &quot;American&quot; - right-wing/ nationalistic bourgeois? - translation, on the other hand, would not respect &quot;God&#039;s continuing revelation.&quot;  And the complex and useful nature, of a long tradition of increasing theological refinement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ironically, many scholars feel that the Bible and its theology, was actually improved and refined by the best of later translations.  In that case, going back to the original would not be good. </p>
<p>A 1611 update by the best scholars available, in the era of Shakespeare, of a c. 200 AD document, might be useful after all.  Though we might well look into just exactly what &#8220;improvements&#8221; were made, and the complex developed theology that made them.  In particular, the pointed Shakespearian semantic ambiguity of later versions, seems to have helped convey a complex message that most ordinary churches have not really appreciated, even to this very day.</p>
<p>An &#8220;American&#8221; &#8211; right-wing/ nationalistic bourgeois? &#8211; translation, on the other hand, would not respect &#8220;God&#8217;s continuing revelation.&#8221;  And the complex and useful nature, of a long tradition of increasing theological refinement.</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2011-02-15 &#124; The 'K' is not silent</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/rubbishing-the-king-james-version-eugene-peterson-and-translation/#comment-24462</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[links for 2011-02-15 &#124; The 'K' is not silent]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Feb 2011 06:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4231#comment-24462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Rubbishing the King James Version: Eugene Peterson and Translation (tags: article linguistics translation kjv editorial blog theologyforum) [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Rubbishing the King James Version: Eugene Peterson and Translation (tags: article linguistics translation kjv editorial blog theologyforum) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Katherine May</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/rubbishing-the-king-james-version-eugene-peterson-and-translation/#comment-24460</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary Katherine May]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 22:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4231#comment-24460</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As to England, it was and is no different than the U.S.A. and other countries.  Different areas have different language usage.  The King&#039;s English would have been the standard, I assume for court, parliament, church, legal proceedings, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to England, it was and is no different than the U.S.A. and other countries.  Different areas have different language usage.  The King&#8217;s English would have been the standard, I assume for court, parliament, church, legal proceedings, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Katherine May</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/rubbishing-the-king-james-version-eugene-peterson-and-translation/#comment-24459</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mary Katherine May]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 22:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4231#comment-24459</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting comments from Eugene Peterson, considering that he is the author of The Message (Bible).  I can guarantee I don&#039;t speak his language, and in regard to equivalency--WHAT equivalency?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting comments from Eugene Peterson, considering that he is the author of The Message (Bible).  I can guarantee I don&#8217;t speak his language, and in regard to equivalency&#8211;WHAT equivalency?</p>
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		<title>By: Bill B</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/rubbishing-the-king-james-version-eugene-peterson-and-translation/#comment-24458</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bill B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 22:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4231#comment-24458</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post, Kyle.  There is a bit of circumstantial evidence in support of Peterson&#039;s theory on the cover page of the original KJV -&quot;Appointed to be read in Churches,&quot; which means to me that it would have been more formal speech than would be used in the street outside the church.  Even fans of Peterson&#039;s &quot;The Message&quot; or other colloquial translations do not (always) advocate their liturgical use.  I worship in an evangelical/charismatic Anglican parish that is very low church and ripe for one of the less formal translations, but we use the ESV for public reading of scripture.  Thanks for your effort on this post and your blog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Kyle.  There is a bit of circumstantial evidence in support of Peterson&#8217;s theory on the cover page of the original KJV -&#8221;Appointed to be read in Churches,&#8221; which means to me that it would have been more formal speech than would be used in the street outside the church.  Even fans of Peterson&#8217;s &#8220;The Message&#8221; or other colloquial translations do not (always) advocate their liturgical use.  I worship in an evangelical/charismatic Anglican parish that is very low church and ripe for one of the less formal translations, but we use the ESV for public reading of scripture.  Thanks for your effort on this post and your blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Brettongarcia</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/rubbishing-the-king-james-version-eugene-peterson-and-translation/#comment-24456</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brettongarcia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4231#comment-24456</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are so many variables and simply unknowns, going back this far in History.   Roughly of course, we think the earliest New Testaments we have, were based on common - koine - Greek.  But how much?  And what did the words mean?  Culture was far less international then, than it is now; words mean different things to different people.  

But especially? I don&#039;t know much Greek; but enough to look at the oldest Greek texts we have ... and to assert that, in spite of protests from classicists or others, the old tongue was much less refined, much less specific in many ways, than language is today.  

But especially?  There is so much slack, play, in TRANSLATIONS.  For me - not an expert in Greek per se, but pretty well informed on language, semantics, and so forth - looking at the original Greek?  There&#039;s &quot;many a slip, twixt cup and lip.&quot;   There&#039;s more than enough slack, to come up with a Bible that pretty much says almost anything you want it to.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are so many variables and simply unknowns, going back this far in History.   Roughly of course, we think the earliest New Testaments we have, were based on common &#8211; koine &#8211; Greek.  But how much?  And what did the words mean?  Culture was far less international then, than it is now; words mean different things to different people.  </p>
<p>But especially? I don&#8217;t know much Greek; but enough to look at the oldest Greek texts we have &#8230; and to assert that, in spite of protests from classicists or others, the old tongue was much less refined, much less specific in many ways, than language is today.  </p>
<p>But especially?  There is so much slack, play, in TRANSLATIONS.  For me &#8211; not an expert in Greek per se, but pretty well informed on language, semantics, and so forth &#8211; looking at the original Greek?  There&#8217;s &#8220;many a slip, twixt cup and lip.&#8221;   There&#8217;s more than enough slack, to come up with a Bible that pretty much says almost anything you want it to.</p>
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