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	<title>Comments on: N. T. Wright and Method and Matter</title>
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	<description>Serving the joyful cultivation of the theological craft for the life of the church: inquiring honestly, deliberating wisely, acting faithfully</description>
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		<title>By: What Is the Fundamental Reformation Legacy? &#171; Before All Things</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/n-t-wright-and-method-and-matter/#comment-25064</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[What Is the Fundamental Reformation Legacy? &#171; Before All Things]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Aug 2011 15:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4361#comment-25064</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] to their doctrine of justification that those like Wright have made?  Steve Duby over at the Theology Forum blog has it about right, it seems to me: “I think one of the problems [with Wright’s reasoning] [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to their doctrine of justification that those like Wright have made?  Steve Duby over at the Theology Forum blog has it about right, it seems to me: “I think one of the problems [with Wright’s reasoning] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: brettongarcia</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/n-t-wright-and-method-and-matter/#comment-24836</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[brettongarcia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 May 2011 19:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4361#comment-24836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Can we really so clearly differentiate &quot;method&quot; from &quot;substance&quot; or findings?  It is often taught in academic methodology classes, that different methods contain certain biases, for certain kinds of content.  The kind of fish you catch, depends on what kind of line and bait you use.

Indeed, &quot;solus scriptura&quot; isn&#039;t just a method; it is also a statement about the very high value of scripture.  Possibly in fact, it is the deification of scripture, of the &quot;word.&quot;  Therefore?  Protestant founders like Calvin might even - indeed - change their &quot;substance.&quot;  If a new scriptural analysis suggested that scripture indicated some new conclusion, different from what they thought earlier.

Is theology immune to progress?  Can&#039;t we find something in scripture that Calvin didn&#039;t?  And then?  Change Protestantism somewhat.  Even with a sort of approval in effect, from Calvin and others.

I think the Protestant founders&#039; adherence to &quot;method&quot; and/or scripture, was such that they themselves would allow many of their own ideas, conclusions, to be questioned and in some cases reversed.  If and when a scripture-based method indicated that need.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we really so clearly differentiate &#8220;method&#8221; from &#8220;substance&#8221; or findings?  It is often taught in academic methodology classes, that different methods contain certain biases, for certain kinds of content.  The kind of fish you catch, depends on what kind of line and bait you use.</p>
<p>Indeed, &#8220;solus scriptura&#8221; isn&#8217;t just a method; it is also a statement about the very high value of scripture.  Possibly in fact, it is the deification of scripture, of the &#8220;word.&#8221;  Therefore?  Protestant founders like Calvin might even &#8211; indeed &#8211; change their &#8220;substance.&#8221;  If a new scriptural analysis suggested that scripture indicated some new conclusion, different from what they thought earlier.</p>
<p>Is theology immune to progress?  Can&#8217;t we find something in scripture that Calvin didn&#8217;t?  And then?  Change Protestantism somewhat.  Even with a sort of approval in effect, from Calvin and others.</p>
<p>I think the Protestant founders&#8217; adherence to &#8220;method&#8221; and/or scripture, was such that they themselves would allow many of their own ideas, conclusions, to be questioned and in some cases reversed.  If and when a scripture-based method indicated that need.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Duby</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/n-t-wright-and-method-and-matter/#comment-24835</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Steve Duby]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 May 2011 08:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4361#comment-24835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Beau, 

Thanks for your thoughts here.  I agree that methodology played a significant role in the Reformation, but my point here is that it&#039;s not the only thing the Reformers cared about.  That&#039;s why it seems dubious to me to say that someone is the true heir of, say, Luther when one doesn&#039;t agree with the substance of what he advocated.  If methodology alone is sufficient to claim continuity, then, frankly, just about anyone who&#039;s trying to do exegesis and allow Scripture to norm their theology can urge that they represent, e.g., true Lutheranism.  It may be that some of the critics of Wright have made appeals whose tenor is different from that of what Luther or Calvin would say if they were alive (I suppose it depends on which critics we&#039;re thinking of).  However, if Wright wants to say that his critics have deviated from the method of Reformation theology, I think it only fitting for him to acknowledge that, since in some ways he deviates from the matter of Reformation theology, Luther and Calvin probably would be equally unhappy with his theological moves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beau, </p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughts here.  I agree that methodology played a significant role in the Reformation, but my point here is that it&#8217;s not the only thing the Reformers cared about.  That&#8217;s why it seems dubious to me to say that someone is the true heir of, say, Luther when one doesn&#8217;t agree with the substance of what he advocated.  If methodology alone is sufficient to claim continuity, then, frankly, just about anyone who&#8217;s trying to do exegesis and allow Scripture to norm their theology can urge that they represent, e.g., true Lutheranism.  It may be that some of the critics of Wright have made appeals whose tenor is different from that of what Luther or Calvin would say if they were alive (I suppose it depends on which critics we&#8217;re thinking of).  However, if Wright wants to say that his critics have deviated from the method of Reformation theology, I think it only fitting for him to acknowledge that, since in some ways he deviates from the matter of Reformation theology, Luther and Calvin probably would be equally unhappy with his theological moves.</p>
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		<title>By: Beau</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/n-t-wright-and-method-and-matter/#comment-24834</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Beau]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 May 2011 02:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4361#comment-24834</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve-

I&#039;m sorry, I don&#039;t have access to the whole article but I would be surprised if this was in any way central to the discussion for Wright. This feels like rhetoric. A (I think perfectly legitimate) jab at the irony of those who have set themselves up as the evangelical protestant version of the Magisterium. I&#039;m not a Reformed historian but as I recall method was VERY much at the center of the break with Rome. All the solas and the semper (reforming that is) are very much about method. This seems like a perfectly legitimate--even necessary--point to make in the current climate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve-</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, I don&#8217;t have access to the whole article but I would be surprised if this was in any way central to the discussion for Wright. This feels like rhetoric. A (I think perfectly legitimate) jab at the irony of those who have set themselves up as the evangelical protestant version of the Magisterium. I&#8217;m not a Reformed historian but as I recall method was VERY much at the center of the break with Rome. All the solas and the semper (reforming that is) are very much about method. This seems like a perfectly legitimate&#8211;even necessary&#8211;point to make in the current climate.</p>
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		<title>By: Brettongarcia</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/n-t-wright-and-method-and-matter/#comment-24833</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brettongarcia]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2011 23:26:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4361#comment-24833</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Personally, I follow a biblical theology - but for mostly practical purposes, rather than methodological.  But?  Abandoning that method (as perhaps many secretly have), leads to many problems and questions.

1) Did Luther and Calivin really not care much about their method?  Could you describe precisely where you feel that Luther and Calvin&#039;s conclusions, departed from the &quot;solus scriptura&quot; or &quot;sola scriptura&quot; methodology?

2) Are you accusing them of duplicity, when they appeared to favor this methodology, as their central principle?

3) Perhaps after all, they would agree with Wright, on the basis of his better biblical argument regarding justification say.  And change their views, the result, to his.

4) What about Wright&#039;s complaints that non-Biblical &quot;Protestants&quot; are ... duplicitous?  That they are merely pretending to be Protestants, honoring scripture;  but they are really the new, Crypto-Catholics?

5) If scripture is not the basis of contemporary &quot;Protestant&quot; theology, then what, precisely, is?  What firmer basis than scripture, would a critic of &quot;biblicism&quot; propose?  The Church?  Again?

6) No doubt, there are several other possible sources of morality and even theology:  positive law, say; or academic Ethics; or natural law; or Reason.  But are any of these fixed or solid enough?  Most of them change every few years; much of what they do is highly speculative.  Should we just cut loose the ropes to scripture ... and go with whatever academic fad presents itself this week?  As the holy and sacred?

Should we be checking the academic journals and religious talk shows, to find out what is sacred this week?

To be sure, I am reasonably sympathetic to the claims of Natural Law say; and academic Ethics; and Reason.  Still?  

7) Then too, a huge number of people have read at least parts of the Bible; it is still a much bigger audience, than the readership for academic Ethics; Philosophy; even Reason.  The Bible is still the &quot;lingua franca,&quot; the touchstone, of the world of at least popular ethics and morality, in the West.  Few people would understand a formal ethical argument; many more would understand something based on a few lines of the Bible.

To be sure though?  You might find even in the Bible itself some lines indicating a study of God that would extend beyond the BIble.  The Gospel of John for example, suggests that Jesus said and did many things that were not recorded in the Bible.  While Paul might be taken to have proposed a kind of agnosticism, when he suggested that he listened &quot;to an unknown God.&quot;  And suggested that his own &quot;knowledge&quot; and &quot;prophesy&quot; would &quot;pass away.&quot;

Here and elsewhere the Bible itself  - ironically, selfdeconstructively - might authorize a study of religion, that would include, but also extend beyond, scripture.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I follow a biblical theology &#8211; but for mostly practical purposes, rather than methodological.  But?  Abandoning that method (as perhaps many secretly have), leads to many problems and questions.</p>
<p>1) Did Luther and Calivin really not care much about their method?  Could you describe precisely where you feel that Luther and Calvin&#8217;s conclusions, departed from the &#8220;solus scriptura&#8221; or &#8220;sola scriptura&#8221; methodology?</p>
<p>2) Are you accusing them of duplicity, when they appeared to favor this methodology, as their central principle?</p>
<p>3) Perhaps after all, they would agree with Wright, on the basis of his better biblical argument regarding justification say.  And change their views, the result, to his.</p>
<p>4) What about Wright&#8217;s complaints that non-Biblical &#8220;Protestants&#8221; are &#8230; duplicitous?  That they are merely pretending to be Protestants, honoring scripture;  but they are really the new, Crypto-Catholics?</p>
<p>5) If scripture is not the basis of contemporary &#8220;Protestant&#8221; theology, then what, precisely, is?  What firmer basis than scripture, would a critic of &#8220;biblicism&#8221; propose?  The Church?  Again?</p>
<p>6) No doubt, there are several other possible sources of morality and even theology:  positive law, say; or academic Ethics; or natural law; or Reason.  But are any of these fixed or solid enough?  Most of them change every few years; much of what they do is highly speculative.  Should we just cut loose the ropes to scripture &#8230; and go with whatever academic fad presents itself this week?  As the holy and sacred?</p>
<p>Should we be checking the academic journals and religious talk shows, to find out what is sacred this week?</p>
<p>To be sure, I am reasonably sympathetic to the claims of Natural Law say; and academic Ethics; and Reason.  Still?  </p>
<p>7) Then too, a huge number of people have read at least parts of the Bible; it is still a much bigger audience, than the readership for academic Ethics; Philosophy; even Reason.  The Bible is still the &#8220;lingua franca,&#8221; the touchstone, of the world of at least popular ethics and morality, in the West.  Few people would understand a formal ethical argument; many more would understand something based on a few lines of the Bible.</p>
<p>To be sure though?  You might find even in the Bible itself some lines indicating a study of God that would extend beyond the BIble.  The Gospel of John for example, suggests that Jesus said and did many things that were not recorded in the Bible.  While Paul might be taken to have proposed a kind of agnosticism, when he suggested that he listened &#8220;to an unknown God.&#8221;  And suggested that his own &#8220;knowledge&#8221; and &#8220;prophesy&#8221; would &#8220;pass away.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here and elsewhere the Bible itself  &#8211; ironically, selfdeconstructively &#8211; might authorize a study of religion, that would include, but also extend beyond, scripture.</p>
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		<title>By: N. T. Wright and Method and Matter « Theology Forum - Christian IBD</title>
		<link>http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/2011/05/13/n-t-wright-and-method-and-matter/#comment-24832</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[N. T. Wright and Method and Matter « Theology Forum - Christian IBD]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2011 00:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theologyforum.wordpress.com/?p=4361#comment-24832</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] sure of is what I learned forty years ago from Luther and Calvin &#8230;&#013;&#013;View full post on protestant &#8211; Google Blog Search   Tagged with: Forum &#8226; Matter &#8226; Method &#8226; Theology &#8226; Wright&#160;     If you [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] sure of is what I learned forty years ago from Luther and Calvin &#8230;&#013;&#013;View full post on protestant &#8211; Google Blog Search   Tagged with: Forum &bull; Matter &bull; Method &bull; Theology &bull; Wright&nbsp;     If you [...]</p>
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